soft_shelled | Ryslig Inbox

Of course he did not ask. He believed he understood the situation and had no reason to doubt it, until the missing information was revealed -- at the most inopportune moment possible. Keeping a secret in a place like this, when one is surrounded by unknown factors that possess staggering amounts of personal power, is another tactic that is both unpredictable and dangerous.

Truths should be revealed. I find secrets and prevarication, even the sort that is meant to shield others, abhorrent. However, it is pure naivete to pretend that truth cannot be used as a weapon, especially when such secrets exist. Prior concealment gives truth an edge, and it does not suit you, Donatello, to pretend you did not use it to cut.

I wonder -- is thinking of him as an adult, as well as a parental figure, damaging to your particular relationship? There are certain expectations that come with such a relationship, and it seems some of the pain comes from how they have been betrayed. I would have had a very difficult time accepting a surrogate father -- I barely accepted my brother, who only seemed to have time for me if he were training me in spycraft or utilizing my talents in service of the British Crown, and it is better not to speak of my father's passing, or the effect it had on my mother.

It may be worth a try to put yourselves on more equal footing, if you are reminded overmuch of the adults you are used to.

Well the truth was revealed, perhaps not in the most opportune way, but it was revealed.

And honestly I would prefer if he acted as an adult should. It is not that hard to tell that his caring for my brother and myself was simply done to make himself feel better and not out of any desire to care for us as individuals. The fact he can so easily abandon Leonardo over my feelings is proof of that.

And there is no need for equal footing, I simply wish he would stop lying to us as well.

[....they may be getting somewhere, here. If he still had ears, they'd perk in interest. There's no point in telling Donnie he's wrong; he has nothing concrete to back it up with, and he suspects it won't land. But...]

And what is it you would expect from an adult who was behaving properly?

[What are the parameters? Where was the actual shortfall, besides failing to convince a mistrustful and analytical teenager that he wasn't an accessory, that he was more than an ego trip?]

[The answer takes some time to come, as Donnie has to think on his answer. He wants to give Sherlock the truth after all.]

For him to accept that we will do things and that we do not need him to be overprotective. We have handled ourselves our whole lives with minimal supervision, why should that change with him being around? He told us to live our lives how we want to, and that is what we did. We decided to keep information from him, but that does not speak to if we trust him or not. I have trusted James with... Things of an emotional nature, I do not trust many people with that. In fact I have barely started to do such things with Leonardo, if he was truly aware of how we are he would have been able to pick up on such things.

Yet he did not.

Then it is an emotional confidante, not a guardian, that you want. You expected total freedom and absolute trust in your independent judgment, and his acceptance that he might be kept in the dark about dangers that affect him and his loved ones.

That is the sort of acceptance that is better asked for outright. It is difficult to live with, but I doubt he would refuse, as there are few things indeed he would refuse you, and it would let him know better what to expect from you.

Were you afraid that he would restrict you, were you to tell him the truth of your more dangerous activities? Is that the "lying" you alluded to before?

Edited 2023-07-23 15:21 (UTC)

No. [He feels that Sherlock's assessment of him wanting a confidante is wrong and boy he will say it.]

I have called him "dad" many times before, and I meant it when I said it. Just... I am not used to such attention from a parent-aged adult and it going well. And perhaps that is a failing of my own.

[That last line is not something Donnie would normally admit, so Sherlock gets that.]

And I do not fear any restrictions, I... Worry he would decide to involve himself in matters that do not concern him. In fact we have done many things without his knowledge, and even things for him, and that should stay that way to keep him happy. The lying I speak of is that it is impossible for a person to keep being as selfless as he has been and not have ulterior motives, or to put it simply; I wish he was more selfish.

[The outright denial of his assessment is still productive. Establishing what is not true allows the shape of what is to emerge from the negative space. So: Donatello does want the family unit to include Bucky, and everyone here is at cross-purposes trying to protect everyone else.

Oof.

The admission of at least partial fault also seems significant. And they are going to address things done to keep him happy in a minute, kiddo.

But...]

Sometimes, I do, too. Unfortunately, a combination of his particular upbringing and his conditioning at the hands of HYDRA has left him in the habit of putting his own needs last, assuming that if he can bear a burden for others then he must, and a deep belief that his own pain matters less than that of those he cares about. It doesn't help that his tolerance for it is astonishing. He does not understand that those close to him might still wish that he would not take it, even if he has before.

He has always been taking care of one person or another, be it his family, his friends, or the monstrous organization that held his leash, and he asks for nothing in return but to be allowed to continue in their company. I understand that this made you feel used, as though you were not a person but simply something to fill his need to care for something or someone.

Do you truly believe that? That he does not see you as an individual?

And can you trust that his selflessness is sincere, if not entirely what those who love him want for him?

Edited 2023-07-23 22:13 (UTC)

I am aware, to some degree, of what James has been through. I still cannot believe that having gone through such things that he is as selfless as he appears to be, if only from my own experiences with adults and trauma.

[In other words Donnie is basing his assessment of Bucky all on how Splinter has acted.]

I believe that, to some degree. Perhaps there are moments where he sees me as something other than a thing to be protected and coddled, but they may not be as numerous as I believe.

And I cannot, if the people who care for him truly care they would want him to be himself without him feeling to sacrifice himself for others.

Hm.

I do not like his selflessness. It worries me. I worry about what he might do, what he might put himself through, if he decided it was for the best. I do not want to see him in pain.

Yet I trust that he is not putting on an act. He really would do those things, and it really is because he thinks so little of what he needs. That is what I mean when I say, "trust that his selflessness is sincere."

Even if that is not what I want to be true, even if I wish to see it change, I do not believe it to be a lie. He is not given to telling them, outside of self-effacement, and his actions, in the time I have known him, suggest the same. Wouldn't you agree?

Even if all of the adults you have known have been one way, that is no reason to close your eyes to the evidence in front of you that Barnes is different. Use your prior experience to inform your judgment, not cloud it. He is exactly as he says he is.

I cannot do that, as I am using my past experiences to inform what I am seeing. All adults are selfish creatures, they do things for themselves first and foremost, I have learned this all too well in my life. Why should I allow myself to be open for more injury on the rare chance that James is different when my data shows that is highly unlikely?

No matter what you say on the matter this is what I believe. This is a facade that will crack, the fact that he can so easily dismiss Leonardo's feelings and run away is also proof that I am right, that his feelings towards my brother and I are an act. If he truly cared he would not have run away from trouble, if he truly knew anything about myself and Leonardo he would know that I am... Bad with getting what I mean across in emotional situations. It is easier for me to lash out than accept what I am feeling, is what I am saying.

It is not proof that you were right. It is proof that what you said hurt him deeply, and with Leonardo complicit in keeping the same secrets from him, how was he to know you were not both in agreement, especially in a highly emotional situation? If anything cracked, it was his belief that his presence had a positive effect on the two of you, and it was your words that did it. You convinced him he wasn't doing you two any good, and for your sake, he left.

He can be stubborn at times, but Bucky Barnes is a man who caves easily in the face of a stronger personality. Have you not observed how quickly he moves to correct his behaviour when faced with disapproval? How much approval counts for, with him? He had his autonomy taken away completely for many years and is still recovering from the ordeal. It is something one must keep in mind, if one cares for him: his free will must be treated more delicately than most.

You lashed out, a lapse in judgment, and behaved irrationally in an emotional situation. He also left in distress before verifying your words with Leonardo. If your irrationality is understandable, and does not mean that you were untruthful about your regard for him before then, than you must offer him and his leap to an unverified emotional conclusion the same courtesy.

And all relationships are transactional, to a degree. No one does anything without receiving something in return, even if it is as insubstantial as the satisfaction of seeing loved ones happy, or the pride in having taken action in alignment with one's principles. It seems to me unreasonable to insist that it was a moral failing for Bucky to get something out of your relationship with him, even if it was the satisfaction of feeling he was doing well by you. At least if you know that satisfaction from your happiness is what he is getting out of it, then you know he is unlikely to hurt you in the way you have been before.

Edited 2023-07-24 02:59 (UTC)

[It is... a long time before Donnie gives a reply, and really he can't think of anything to rebut what Sherlock is saying so... All he'll get is this.]

Fine. I shall apologize for my behaviour then.

I am sure it will be appreciated. Discussing this with you has been clarifying in a number of ways, and I am grateful to have your perspective on the incident, as well as for your candor.

Out of curiosity, do you still feel the same about the other secrets you've held back from him? The matters you mentioned -- the actions you've taken for his happiness that you intended to keep from him for good?

I try to be truthful, as I am a horrible liar.

... Considering it involved the man who put him through such horrible things, I do not think he would take well to the news that Leonardo and I killed that man.

[Just casual murder talk here.]

He was here? A HYDRA agent was here?

[The professional punctuation does not quite get across the actual outrage being felt.]

How? When?

Yes, and it was during the month when everything was glitching.

[He believes that answers the questions posed of him. Unless Sherlock means how did Pierce die? Instructions unclear.]

And he remained dead, when you killed him?

[Priorities.]

If he came back he made sure to not show himself so it appears so.

... That and I unloaded a gun into his head at the time.

You are right that, should he return, he must be kept away from Barnes at all costs.

[Eh! It's monster murder! Murder of one of them hits different from permamurder. This was like putting someone in jail, only the jail was the stretch of time beteeen death and possible revival.]

But I am not sure I agree with not telling him about the incident. It may take away some of his peace of mind, but surely that is better than leaving him wholly unprepared, if the man returns.

Oh, if he shows his face again I'll make him wish he stayed dead.

[Donnie may... know a few ways to keep a person alive while making them wish they were dead, don't ask why or how he knows that.]

I see no reason to cause distress to James by telling him about the incident, if he returns then I will inform him about it.

You cannot guarantee that you will encounter him before Barnes does in that case. Keeping the man blissfully ignorant led to adverse enough results when the matter was not such a personal one. All of this might happen again, and worse!

At the very least, I ask that you provide me with a description of the man, so that more of us may act as lookouts.

[Oh Sherlock will get a description of Alexander Pierce, and maybe a bit of a better retelling of what happened between Donnie, Leo and that man.

It's long and he leaves out what they did with the body, but the description of the man's corpse should not be familiar to Sherlock as they never did take it to the morgue. Either way, information, yay!]

Ah, this was before the soup kitchen was sharing their information with us. His remains did not make it to me.

I can't say I agree completely with the summary judgment and execution. Everyone deserves a trial. However, any fair trial would see the man given the rope, and such a thing could hardly realistically be organized in such a situation.

Good work with the gun. You were right to go for the legs first.

[He doesn't like it. But there are men Sherlock Holmes feels ought to be dead, even if sending them to the grave himself at his own judgment isn't right, and the people responsible for what happened to Bucky are among them.]

If he returns, he must be kept away from Barnes. You can count on my assistance.

And, should more immediate talks go poorly and an outside perspective would be of use, you know how to reach me.

Edited 2023-07-30 00:58 (UTC)

Considering what he did, the fact he did not heed our warnings or suggestions that he run, I feel that what I did was a kindness.

And thank you, I felt that disabling him was poetic in a way.

[Honestly it shows how much Donnie does care for Bucky, that he did that at all. He is prone to violence, yes, but his most extreme outbursts of it is saved for protecting the ones he cares about.]

Of course, glad to have your help.

... and thank you. I'll remember that.

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<S.Holmes>

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<S.Holmes> cw brainwashing mention

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<S.Holmes> cw more brainwashing talk

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<Bootyyyshaker9000> cw: torture mention/casual murder talk

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<Bootyyyshaker9000> cw: casual gun talk

<S.Holmes> casual murder talk!!

<Bootyyyshaker9000> torture allusions

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<S.Holmes> discussion of capital punishment, hanging, gun violence, lmao

<Bootyyyshaker9000>

WELCOME TO YOUR PRIVATE CHANNEL, DONATELLO. FOR SECURE COMMUNICATION, USE 016.04.154.55 * Bootyyyshaker9000 has joined 016.04.154.55 <Bootyyyshaker9000> God this tech is old. <Bootyyyshaker9000>** ANYWAY, you're conversing with Donatello. Leave a message.